Comments on: Here Comes Everybody http://enthusiasm.cozy.org/archives/2008/03/here-comes-everybody Ben Hyde Tue, 31 Jan 2012 13:18:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ascription is an Anathema to any Enthusiasm » Blog Archive » Defending the Problem http://enthusiasm.cozy.org/archives/2008/03/here-comes-everybody/comment-page-1#comment-954 Ascription is an Anathema to any Enthusiasm » Blog Archive » Defending the Problem Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:55:25 +0000 http://enthusiasm.cozy.org/archives/2008/03/here-comes-everybody/#comment-954 [...] Craftsmen always love their tools.  Further most of them love their problem.  And curiously the policeman must sympathize with the criminal; otherwise how will he be able to model his thinking. Negotiators advise you to walk in the other guy’s shoes. Success in complementing the other function plays out best if understand the other function, to a degree, i.e. the best engineers know a bit about sales, manufacturing, quality assurance, or product marketing. There is a odd mutant form of this pattern where in the problem solver becomes the problem’s advocate.  Defending it.  Assuring the problem persists, that it survives.  This happens when the problem solver’s survival becomes tightly linked to the problem’s survival.  When they have become codependent. Clay sketches this out nicely in his new book (go get a copy). [...] [...] Craftsmen always love their tools.  Further most of them love their problem.  And curiously the policeman must sympathize with the criminal; otherwise how will he be able to model his thinking. Negotiators advise you to walk in the other guy’s shoes. Success in complementing the other function plays out best if understand the other function, to a degree, i.e. the best engineers know a bit about sales, manufacturing, quality assurance, or product marketing. There is a odd mutant form of this pattern where in the problem solver becomes the problem’s advocate.  Defending it.  Assuring the problem persists, that it survives.  This happens when the problem solver’s survival becomes tightly linked to the problem’s survival.  When they have become codependent. Clay sketches this out nicely in his new book (go get a copy). [...]

]]> By: Rekha http://enthusiasm.cozy.org/archives/2008/03/here-comes-everybody/comment-page-1#comment-955 Rekha Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:41:28 +0000 http://enthusiasm.cozy.org/archives/2008/03/here-comes-everybody/#comment-955 Interesting. I heard Clay give a talk about the book about a week ago, and I was thoroughly unimpressed. Online group forming is nothing new. And the examples of Collective Action (capitalized because he was emphasizing that phrase) that Clay presented were inane: airline passengers creating a blog to introduce a bill that never passed beyond New York (and the blog is lame - I've subscribed for the past year), a flash pillow mob in Washington Square Park, etc. A couple of examples from other countries were a bit more compelling, but still no meaningful change was accomplished. Hardly the kind of collective action that we've seen without the support of the Internet. You know, ones that matter, like the fall of the Iron Curtain, U.S. civil rights, heck... Woodstock. And if, as you write, groups stay limited in size, then one likely doesn't need the Internet to find enough like-minded people, no? I'm not saying that cool things don't happen when people find each other online, but if Clay emphasizes "Collective Action" in the book the way he did in his talk, he needs better examples of significant impact. Hopefully the book is better than the presentation. Because I came away pretty sad about the world. Interesting. I heard Clay give a talk about the book about a week ago, and I was thoroughly unimpressed. Online group forming is nothing new. And the examples of Collective Action (capitalized because he was emphasizing that phrase) that Clay presented were inane: airline passengers creating a blog to introduce a bill that never passed beyond New York (and the blog is lame – I’ve subscribed for the past year), a flash pillow mob in Washington Square Park, etc. A couple of examples from other countries were a bit more compelling, but still no meaningful change was accomplished. Hardly the kind of collective action that we’ve seen without the support of the Internet. You know, ones that matter, like the fall of the Iron Curtain, U.S. civil rights, heck… Woodstock.

And if, as you write, groups stay limited in size, then one likely doesn’t need the Internet to find enough like-minded people, no?

I’m not saying that cool things don’t happen when people find each other online, but if Clay emphasizes “Collective Action” in the book the way he did in his talk, he needs better examples of significant impact. Hopefully the book is better than the presentation. Because I came away pretty sad about the world.

]]>